but did obama care raise the cost of health care in the country? no. i don't think it did. i think it was designed -- >> it's going to be a big entitlement. it's going to cost money to cover 40 million -- >> you're shifting tension from the private balance sheet to the public balance sheet. that's not a net increase in cost in any economic sense. >> but if you don't attribute any of the efficiency of our health care system to innovation from the profit incentive, is there any business that wouldn't be better if there wasn't a profit incentive, then? >> of course a profit incentive is important. but in health care, in fact, what the major any novations come out of the center for disease control, the national institutes of health. we have an enormous public sector contribution to this. >> right. but i think that -- >> to overlook that reality is really -- >> -- the basic science. but the application of the basic science comes from entrepreneurs and people that are in the business for profit. no? medical devices -- >> the health care system has got a profit making component. i